TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS, DAMMIT!

**stuckey** · May 17th, 2003, 07:57 PM

my mother works with someone who believes that. she also doesnt believe there were ever dinosaurs. mostly it seems to be people who believe ONLY in the bible. that wont allow themselves to believe anything like that could happen. just like they dont believe the dinosaurs ever existed because THEY're not in the bible. the skeletons are made up by the gvt.

anyway, thats not the reason for all the disbelief, just some that i've seen. i think its horrible for people to deny it happened. even it WAS made up for control, i think its a good control to have. keeps us from repeating it (to that extent)

**zelazny** · May 17th, 2003, 09:49 PM

i doubt remembering the holocaust 'prevents' any of this happening. There's always a scapegoat, or a minority that gets it. Currently most islamic people have trouble.
The only 'use' in my eyes of a holocaust is to show what man is able to do, a landmark in slaughter, in a way. Not that i agree with what happened, but it won't stop people. Unless they were in it themselves. History shows that even knowing history we repeat our mistakes.
To be honest, we still have to get over the holocaust, it's become something like that sin that we are all born with according to catholics.

To be honest, i'd just let the whole pressure of the thing, no stopping those who doubt it, and also no extra attention to it. It happened, get over it. Most of the people involved are dead, but they keep dragging the carcass of the holocaust out to warn us. As i said, the message will be lost for most people. And thanks to the holocaust a lot of jewish people still... well, maybe not consciously, but somehow put the western world on a guilt trip. While the holocaust is repeated in isreal itself for god sakes.

Er.. soo... right to free speech, right to do as dumb as you wany, don't forbid them. What happened happened. If people want to forget it, so be it, forcing it on them won't do the trick.

**GravyTrain** · May 17th, 2003, 10:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by them?rvelous3:
just like they dont believe the dinosaurs ever existed because THEY're not in the bible. the skeletons are made up by the gvt.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

dinosaurs are in the bible...they are given the name levathian i believe

**SHATOUSHKA** · May 18th, 2003, 12:39 AM

er... yeah... ummmm....

i was really concerned about whether people should
be held legally accountable for 'negative' comments
about the holocaust.

the holocaust will be forgotten in the same sense
that the crusades were *makes hand-quoting motion* 'forgotten.
people will eventually read about it in the same
wonder and glassy-eye as they do just about any
other mass murder in our history.

i agree that the jewish community is hell-bent
on establishing and maintaining some type of
guilt (and therefore responsibility) on other
countries. i also agree that there have been
worse crimes....

what i really think makes the holocaust so much
more different, is that in comparison to other
mass deaths, the holocaust was calculative and
structured... even centralized... whereas other
forms of slaughter are 'chaotic' at best.

we can talk all about the holocaust, for that i
don't mind. i certainly wouldn't mind discussing
how sheep-like many of the victims of the holocaust
were in regards to complying with orders... therefore
making them 'less' of a true 'victim'.

but right now i wanna know if you think its a good
idea that people are FORCED to acknowledge it...
as a sign of the times, per se.

personally, i have no doubt that the holocaust
happened. i do question the extreme number...
hell, its even a cliche number by now... as well
as find that number somewhat segregatory in the
fact that its '6 MILLION JEWS'... and not
'6 MILLION VICTIMS' (denoting those that were
not jewish).... or whatever the case may be.

as i do not think that the imagery or remembrance
of the holocaust will fade into oblivion, like
say robin hood or king arthur... where it eventually
becomes a myth... but i do value the fact that
i can potentially write:

THE HOLOCAUST DID NOT HAPPEN

without extreme measures being taken.

it is my contention that this push, this urge
to punish those denying it is no different than
those being punished for denying christianity.
but thats a whole new can o' worms.

******************

and yes, TM3, i have also heard, and been in
argument about people that do not believe dinosaurs
have existed.... or, believe it or not, that there
really is an 'outer space'.... but, thats another
tangent.

**zelazny** · May 18th, 2003, 01:52 AM

Hmmm, i'm only now starting to grasp the spelling errors i made in my post. Sorry, it's the beer.

**SHATOUSHKA** · May 18th, 2003, 03:39 AM

holocaust denial......

CLICK FOR A QUICK REFERNCE

there are countless sites and information
attainable on this subject... but basically
it goes something like this:

people deny the holocaust > holocaust never happened > holocaust becomes myth

in short: as long as there are people denying
the holocaust, some fear that this denial
will spread... not only in a linear fashion
(door-to-door) but across generations...
therefore, eventually all memory of the
holocaust will be filtered out of existence.

because of this fear, many countries are
now (and have) established strict rules/guidelines
about what can be stated about the holocaust.
this can include fines and/or imprisonment

how do you feel about this?

here are some more links:

BAN THAT WEBSITE CONTENT!

HOLO...HOLO... HOLO-WHAT???

CRIMES CRIMES!

**stuckey** · May 18th, 2003, 07:13 AM

that goes to free speach. sorry i was so off topic then. you should be allowed to say whatever the hell you want. but you can be arrested for saying you want to kill the president. why is he so special? not the current one, i know he's "special" (ed)

**soulfilms** · May 18th, 2003, 11:07 AM

back awhiles, when i was learning some history, i encountered this holocaust denial thing. there are a few notable historians (ok just one) who believe this.

i don't think it's right to force people to 'recognise' the holocaust. there are so many people who do believe in the holocaust that the naysayers will eventually fade away (i believe).

i live in a fairly jewish (and oldish) area so i am careful about what i say (being a gentile). (i knew someone's father who with walked outside a synagogue (in what i presume a joke) saluted and said 'Hail Hitler!').

reminds me of shatzy's ubermensch quiz. use a bad situation to your advantage. [img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img]